Out of Focus NikonD40 Camera to Celestron 130EQ telescope

I have recently acquired a Celestron 130-EQ telescope and wish to take photos using my Nikon D40 SLR camera, but....

I have purchased the required Nikon T-ring and the T-Adapter that fits into the telescope 1.25 connector and am able to securely attach the camera to the telescope. I am unable to focus the telescope on anything further than 30-40 meters away without being able to get the camera to get focused. I am sure it has something to do with the focal length, but I do not understand what I should do to try and correct my problem. If I shorten the T-Adapter - I can focus on objects that are further away, but even when the length of the T-Adapter is almost 0 mm I cannot get that focused enough to get a decent picture. It is as if I really should have the camera closer to the eyepiece than I do currently (even maybe inside the eyepiece would give me the ability to focus).Has anyone experienced this before, ? am I just forgetting something ? . Do I need to purchase a focal length reducer? and how would I then connect all the pieces? (just as a FYI- if I use the regular telescope eyepiece I can focus on distant stars and moon as necessary. When I attach the camera I remove the normal eyepiece and the camera T-Adapter takes it's place.)In the atttached diagram - I think the focal length is too great and that may be the reason I cannot focus the camera.

Any help in ideas are very welcome- Thanks

Charkra said:

I have recently acquired a Celestron 130-EQ telescope and wish to take photos using my Nikon D40 SLR camera, but....

I have purchased the required Nikon T-ring and the T-Adapter that fits into the telescope 1.25 connector and am able to securely attach the camera to the telescope. I am unable to focus the telescope on anything further than 30-40 meters away without being able to get the camera to get focused. I am sure it has something to do with the focal length, but I do not understand what I should do to try and correct my problem. If I shorten the T-Adapter - I can focus on objects that are further away, but even when the length of the T-Adapter is almost 0 mm I cannot get that focused enough to get a decent picture. It is as if I really should have the camera closer to the eyepiece than I do currently (even maybe inside the eyepiece would give me the ability to focus).

From Celestron's website:
IMPORTANT NOTE: For the Newtonian models like the AstroMaster 114EQ and 130EQ, the focal plane of the telescope may not be far enough from the tube to allow you to focus with the T-adapter/camera setup you are using.

A third way is to use a point-and-shoot digital camera with the universal digital camera adapter. Here the camera is held by the adapter behind the telescope’s eyepiece. Attach the adapter’s clamp to the eyepiece drawtube, then the camera to the platform on the adapter. You will have to make adjustments to the universal camera adapter to properly position the camera lens in the emerging light beam from the eyepiece and focus it. This is easy to see with the camera’s preview screen. Try different eyepieces in the telescope and zoom settings of the camera to get the view you want.

According to Celestron, it sounds as if you need a LONGER adapter tube, not a shorter one.

Board regular Starimage may be able to advise you further. The last astrophotography I did was 25 years ago. He has all the gear now.

Charkra,

In your diagram, the distance from the camera to the diagonal mirror is not your actual focal length. In a Newtonian reflector telescope, the focal length is the distance from the objective mirror to the actual focal point (the diagonal mirror is somewhere in between).

Objective mirror to focal point.

The same concept goes for a Schmidt-Cassegranian telescope, though the optics are more complex.

Stari, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Oh boy my cup of tea. I just got on here really quick, but I will be back later. Today is my sons Birthday and of course it's also New years eve. but after every thing quiets down around here tonight I will get back on.

Thanks for the reply - I will attempt to move the camera away from the eyepiece, I do have a couple of tri-pods so it should be possible, at least to see if that will fix the problem. I assume it is possible to get extension Tubes if necessary to attach to a T-Adapter. Will post the feedback once I have it setup and tested to let you know how I faired.

Charkra said:

I will attempt to move the camera away from the eyepiece, I do have a couple of tri-pods so it should be possible, at least to see if that will fix the problem.

OUCH.

I don't think that'll be a viable option, mounting the camera completely indendent of the 'scope. You really need to have the camera hard-mounted to the telescope in order to make sure the camera's sensor is aligned with the telescope. What you propose is the equivalent of taking a picture with an SLR with you handholding the disconnected lens a fraction of an inch ahead of the camera. You'll be incredibly lucky if you get any results at all.

And are you trying to do nighttime astrophotography, or are you wanting to do daytime terrestrial photography?

I was only doing the manual holding to verify if it would come into focus when the camera was further from the eyepiece - . Unfortunately this is not the case and I really need to move the camera closer to the eyepiece. I have no intention to hold it manually that would take all the fun out of astrophotography . I did attempt to place a few lenses inbetween, and I did get a focus, although you have to imagine what it looked like with a camera on one tripod, the telescope on another and a hand holding lenses to try and see what happens.......
If anyone has a suggested part that may help please let me know.

Thanks

I tried to redraw what I see as the problem, where the focal length ends slightly short of the end of the eyepiece, and hence as the camera also has a short focal point, they do not actually meet and therefore cannot focus. This is depicted as the "A" in the diagram. Can anyone suggest how I should go about to rectify this . I am unable physically to get the two points closer, so I assume I need a lense or something to go between the two. I hope this is correct or if someone can correct me - I will certainly appreciate any help you may have.
Thanks

Sorry it's been crazy here for the last few day.

I have a Meade Schmidt-Newtonian Lxd55 10" looks like the middle image on this page (this is the newer version of the same scope)
www.meade.com/lxd75/index.html

Anyway, I tried to check if your telescope can use 2" eyepieces or only 1 1/4" eyepieces and to see if it uses an extension ring, can't tell. As an example my telescope can use both. Attached is a photo of my telescope focuser it has a extension ring ( B ) A 2" to 1 1/4 converter (A) and The focus tube (C) To use an eyepiece (to use with your eyes) I must use it just like the images shows, But to do Prime focus photography I must remove the extension ring ( B ) and attach (A) to (C). If you don't have an extension ring (call Celestron to see what can be done for prime focus on your scope) or you can use these three other ideas using an camera. Also #4 is for using a different type of cameras.

1) You can use a Piggyback Mount (I don't think you want to do this but I included this anyway). Here is the part.

www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=50&ProdID=355

2) A Tele-Extender (I haven't had much luck with these because the eyepieces seems to get in the way of the camera SLR mirror) But here are two links (I have the Orion one)

www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=50&ProdID=367

www.telescope.com/control/product/ ~category_id=photo_accessories/~pcategory=astro- imaging/~product_id=A0320

3) use a Universal Camera Mount (I also have one of these and works good, there are two bad points)
1) you need to use with a short camera lens I use a 50mm.
2) you only get an image in the center of your camera) One big plus on using this is: you use a camera lens and a eyepiece so you can zoom up on your subject, plus you and use your camera focus (use manual focus) to fine tune the focus.
*This may be the only option for you the way your telescope is set up, if you don't have an removable extension ring. Other than getting a new Telescope focuser (which you could do but it would mod out your telescope and be a lot of work) here is two links (I have the Orion one)

www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?CatID=62&ProdID=352

www.telescope.com/control/product/ ~category_id=photo_accessories/~pcategory=astro- imaging/~product_id=05228

4) This is for using a different type of cameras I have all of these and work great. These use a stacking program to use many images stacked together to make one image (you get greater details)

1) a Web Cam
www.webcam-astrophotography.com/webcam- astrophotography-faq.html

2) CCD made just for telescopes
two versions Planetary or deep space

www.celestron.com/c3/product.php?ProdID=354

www.meade.com/dsi_3/index.html

www.meade.com/autostar/lpi.html

www.telescope.com/control/category/~category_id=astro- imaging_camera/~pcategory=astro-imaging

I am planing on writing a blog about this subject as soon as I get a chance to get some more images of Deep space objects like nebula and Galaxies. I have some on film but instead of scanning them I want to shoot more using digital (just waiting for clear skies )

Anyway I know I have posted these images before but here is some of the types done.

This one is done at prime focus (the same way your trying to do)
The Moon

Piggyback
The Sun

Web Cam
Saturn
This was my first image through the telescope (I know it looks bad hehe )

I was looking at your last drawing and have a question.

Are you using an eyepiece? can you take a picture of this set up (just from T-ring down)

I think your focus point is where I put a Blue dot (see attached image) This is where your eye would be when looking though the telescope. The Purple line is where your camera CCD is, no wonder it's out of focus. that is maybe 3 inches away.

If you are using a eyepiece (like is shows in your drawing) take it out and attach the T-Adapter to the focuser if you can.

Wow Stari, that webcam shot is actually pretty great! You can resolve the rings' Cassini Division and you can see Saturn's atmospheric banding.

Wow Stari, that webcam shot is actually pretty great! You can resolve the rings' Cassini Division and you can see Saturn's atmospheric banding.

Ya, I can do better though

From Celestron's website:
IMPORTANT NOTE: For the Newtonian models like the AstroMaster 114EQ and 130EQ, the focal plane of the telescope may not be far enough from the tube to allow you to focus with the T-adapter/camera setup you are using.

According to Celestron, it sounds as if you need a LONGER adapter tube, not a shorter one.

Looks like he would need a shorter tube. See the part that says "the focal plane of the telescope may not be far enough from the tube" which would mean that the focal plane hits short not long, if the focal plane came out of the tube then he could use an longer tube.

Charkra, here is a link to your manual online PFD format. Note Page 26 and also note the part about Piggyback it says Only don't know if that mean that with your scope you can only use Piggyback or that this adapter for Piggyback is only for your scope you may need to call Celestron to ask.


www.celestron.com/c2/images/files/downloads/ 1219957574_astromasterinst.pdf

Also one quick question is yours the one with tracking or with out (I see that they have both) If you don't have tracking your going to have a hard time with deep space photography.

I forgot about this.

I think your focal length is short. This may work for you. Try it with a Barlow lens may move the focal point out to your camera.

www.pk3.org/Astro/index.htm? scopes_barlow_focal_reducer.htm

Wow! thanks for the feedback - Great info .
In the diagram, although I show the eyepiece sticking out - It really is flush with the focuser and does not protrude, was just trying to illistrate the pieces. I do believe that the focal length is my problem, and I will purchase a barlow to see if it brings it out further so I can use the T-Adapter method of picture taking off the prime focus. I will call Celestron and see if they can suggest any adapters so I can achieve this.
My fallback will be the Camera Adapter if all else fails.

I have purchased the motor so that I can take long exposures images . I am truly amazed at the pictures collected with timed exposures, and that is what I am hoping to achieve at the end.

Just read an atricle about the rings of Saturn - that they will not be really visible for the next year while they change orientation, I already had a look through my scope and am unable to see that level of detail, but I am very new to this so have a lot of learning to do.

Added Photo - Sorry for the quality as I only had a camera phone to take the pic as my camera was being photographed - The eyepiece lenses are not used in the solution here as the telescope is the actual lense for the camera.

looking at your picture. It looks like Celestron should of make the tube in two pieces where you could take out a section of the tube that would fix it for prime focus photography, I think. You may want to ask them if they have a lower profile focuser you could get for that scope. That may work too. You can get 3rd party ones but not sure if you want to spend the money some range between $160 to $200 and I see on one web page you can buy your scope for $199.

Also can your T-Adapter slide in more?

I received a Barlow X2 adapter today and plugged my camera into it - and Gah .... did not focus. I removed the lense from the front of the Barlow and placed it on the T-Adapter and I can now focus , albeit at 2X magnification. I was a lucky recipient of 7 eyepieces and 7 filters today - so will be playing over the next couple of days. Will post some images once the Sky clears and I can actuually see the stars and moon. I believe that the lense placed on the end of the T_Adapter is achieving the desired effect of increasing the focal length - Thanks for all your help and feedback in getting me to this stage, I am stoked now to take a few pictures- I am totally blown away when I placed the 4mm eyepiece on the scope and could see a single impact crater on the moon (took up the entire view), even through the clouds .

First law about telescopes when you get one it is almost always cloudy. Don't know why, but it never fails.

Wait until you see the rings around Saturn or Orion Nebula or other galaxies. It is way cool. Did you get a Collimator for your scope? You should check it ever time you set it up. I use a Laser and a Barlow 2x with a little ring of paper and it works better than all of the other way I have seen. If you need to know how to do it let me know.

Also a program That I use on one of my laptops (I can also control my telescope with it too) Is The Starry Night software line. I have the Pro version but you can get any, it will help you know what is out there, what it should look like, and where to find it, Plus you can change the date to see what it will look like before you even set up the telescope.
http://www.starrynightstore.com/stniso.html

Hey I forgot these web pages will help you too.

Clear sky clock (is it going to be clear tonight? works good (it can change so keep an eye on it.) I remember a time there where clouds every where I set up my telescope (the buddy that was with me at the time) said are you sure? I said the Clear sky clock said at 11:00 it will be clear. sure 10:59 clouds starting to go, 11:00 no Clouds at all. In the boxes where is says cloud cover the darker it is the clearer it is. if it's white forget it, it will be cloudy.
http://www.cleardarksky.com/csk/

Cool Sky map Free online (what's up tonight)
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/skychart/

Thanks for those links - I am sure to be referring to them often.
This evening I noticed the skies were clear and the clouds were coming in fast - I hastedly took out the telescope, attached all the connectors (Yes now quite a few - I am sure will be easier with time) and aimed at the moon. Here is my first shot (well one that is at least viewable and I eventually found it ) - Yay at last ....

looks good, now did you record the shutter speed time? If so keep it open a little longer. It is a little soft but not bad (it could be clouds I don't know) make sure you set your White balance too. You could sharpen it and color correct it in photoshop too. It looks a little noisy too, what ISO were you using?

Good Job, Can't wait until the next images.

Charkra! Duuuude! Great job!

starimagephoto wrote:

looks good, now did you record the shutter speed time? If so keep it open a little longer. It is a little soft but not bad (it could be clouds I don't know) make sure you set your White balance too. You could sharpen it and color correct it in photoshop too. It looks a little noisy too, what ISO were you using?

Good Job, Can't wait until the next images.

The speed was 1/2000 sec ( the sun was still up - I went slower, but then everything was washed out - I was not able to set the F# on the setting for some reason, but if I had , I probably could have brought it up quite a bit and slowed the exposure time too. I did try with a filter, but it came out too dark . I did make adjustments with software afterwards and although does look slightly better, I think I just need to spend more time on the next one (I was a bit of a rush, was just so excited to see it in the camera ) I honestly think that it was very windy here and some shake could have made it a bit blury. Anyways here is the photoshopped one:

Also here is the shot showing the original pixelation that was captured, but due to me resizing the image is lost or not so clear. I may need to read up on the columination you mentioned about earlier and I also noticed that I cannot quite get the whole moon in the one frame - I need the moon to move further away ....

I need the moon to move further away

Bet you never thought you would say that.

I was a bit of a rush, was just so excited to see it in the camera

I can understand that.

1/2000 sec

Next time (wait until dark) and start about 1/250 sec and go from there. You don't use an F-stop because the camera is wide open (no lens) so you have to change the shutter speed and ISO. Keep the ISO as low as you can like 100, then simply adjust the shutter speed to get a good one.

I honestly think that it was very windy here and some shake

That can do it. but at 1/2000 sec it would make a big problem.

I may need to read up on the columination you mentioned about earlier

Let me know, I don't know if you will find it the way I do it on the internet, so let me know if you need help. You can always PM me too.

Nice! Unfortunately there's no moon viewing here these days.

Flop said:

Unfortunately there's no moon viewing here these days.

No matter how bad the weather may be, there are always opportunities for astrophotography and full moons.


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