Chromakey Software

About the time I had the difficulty in masking windblown hair for the composite posters for the soccer players, Photoshop User magazine had a review of a chromakey software package (also known as "bluescreen" or "greenscreen": Primatte Chromakey 3.0, by Digital Anarchy. The review was glowing, but I was skeptical. Sounded too good.

I downloaded a copy -- it's the full working copy, but watermarks every image until you enter a purchased code.

My impressions:
1) REALLY counter-intuitive user interface. Maybe it's something one can learn, but I was pretty lost using the interface.
2) The results are amazing. It'll not only handle fine hair, but it'll work with translucencies and transparencies (water and smoke).

Here's a test photo of a model in front of a blue screen:

And when you eliminate the blue (the backdrop can be any solid color, but there are practical restrictions), you can drop in any background.

I added the arrows to indicate areas that would be difficult to completely impossible to mask out manually. The software handled those areas easily. Three or four clicks.

I could save myself at least one hour per player poster. The software costs $300 (ouch) but could pay for itself in as little as 10 to 20 posters.

The red arrow indicates hair that would be pretty much impossible to manually mask cleanly.

Hey Bob,
Here is a different software that I tried a few years ago it is $239 called Fluid Mask. With these kind of software they would pay for them self only if you do a lot of cut outs. Check out Fluid Mask I liked it but I don't need to do many cut outs so I didn't get it. They do have a free demo.
http://www.vertustech.com/index.htm

Post edited by: starimagephoto, at: 2008/06/06 11:34

With these kind of software they would pay for them self only if you do a lot of cut outs. Check out Fluid Mask I liked it but I don't need to do many cut outs so I didn't get it.

The only definite use I'd have for it is those composite player posters, but that poster is totally dependent on being able to accurately cut out the posed athlete. This could reduce per-unit postproduction time from two-plus hours (for rough results) to as little as 15-30 minutes (and near-perfect results). My initial estimate about time-savings was way conservative. And when we're talking 20-35 posters per team, JV and varsity, that turns it into some pretty fast money.

Turns out a local water polo club recently saw the soccer version and wants a water polo version for their team. And the rest of THAT league will eventually see that one and soon I couldn't possibly do business without the chromakey stuff.

I'll check out the software you recommend.

Though I see a definite need in the sports composite poster market, I could have some fun with the chromakey software when I start photographing models this summer in building up my portraiture chops.

I took a quick look at the Versustech product and it operates by a completely different method (edge-detection) from the Primatte Chromakey (pixel-selection).

I haven't seen the Versustech in action, but my gut tells me that the pixel-selection will provide far finer masking of fine windblown hair. Primatte's pixel-selection picked up individual strands of hair that edge-detection might struggle with. I'll try out the trial version of Versustech, but I suspect that the superfine hair (indicated by the red arrow in my second photo) would on the mask be turned into a gradient.

Can't remember where right now, but this week I saw some chromakey software that handled hair no better than masking by hand could do. Amazing that the vendor would use such poor examples to sell their wares.

What's wrong with the Shot !

With all the composites you're doing Bob, seems like the $300 would be money well spent.

20-35 posters per team

With all the composites you're doing Bob, seems like the $300 would be money well spent.

I would say it would be well spent as well.
Go Bob Go, Go Bob Go!!!
{Nature-0002008A}

operates by a completely different method (edge-detection) from the Primatte Chromakey (pixel-selection)

That could make a big difference, I just wanted to let you know of the product to give you more choices. I will have to check it out. I just wish that it was lower than $300, I only have to cut something out every now and then and just do it by hand.

Post edited by: starimagephoto, at: 2008/06/06 19:37

Go Bob Go, Go Bob Go!!!

{Feel-good-00020069}

That could make a big difference, I just wanted to let you know of the product to give you more choices.

And I always appreciate being shown competing products. As impressed as I've been with Primatte's performance with fine hair, I'm still going to try out the demo package you suggested, Starimage.

One thing that your suggestion had a clear advantage over Primatte in is that your package doesn't require a green screen. It'll cut an object out of a normal background. That would be a huge advantage if I were to need to cut players out of full-action game shots.

Which ever software I go with, I'm gonna go out and buy a green/blue screen to play with.

I will have to check it out. I just wish that it was lower than $300, I only have to cut something out every now and then and just do it by hand.

Are those images something you could shoot against a green screen? If so, perhaps we could work out a deal. You send me the file and for a small friendly fee I cut out the object and send back the results. Wouldn't take me much time or effort to process and you'd save a lot of time and effort. The chromakey results would be sharper than by hand, too. Outsourcing... It's something to think about.

I will have to check [Primatte] out. I just wish that it was lower than $300,

If you do try it out, also download the big packages of sample photos and backgrounds.

And one big tip with using Primatte: Initiating the chromakey masking process when the photo is at normal scale results in very inaccurate masking of fine details. Zoom in quite a ways on the fine detail and then initiate the chromakey masking. It'll pick up individual hairs and the results are stunning.

I found that out just by playing around with the software. I was disgusted with my first results, but ecstatic over the second and third tries.

James said:

What's wrong with the Shot !

I assume you mean the photo with the arrows all over it?

Absolutely nothing's wrong with it. In fact, it's in grand shape. I was only pointing out areas that would be hard or impossible to manually mask.

If you mean another shot, I need some clarification.

Hey Bob,
I checked out both again today. Both have some advantages.
Primatte does better with hair, see though areas like wedding veils etc, but needs to be on a green/blue screen or same color background etc. (I have a green screen, and I will tell you it is hard to get all the wrinkles out (were people are standing)) for full body shots
Fluid Mask seems to work with out a green/blue screen but doesn't do as good on the hair etc...

If only they were cheap, you could get both, run it though Fluid mask first to get it off a non-green screen then run it though Primatte to get the finer cut in hair etc. Maybe both software could make one package together.

Doing it by hand is not that hard when you do have a green screen,(if lighted right) but how often outside the studio can you use a green screen with full even lighting, most would be like on the field in a action shot (for sport shots) My green screen is kind of like my fisheye lens when you first get it you take a lot of shots with it but then it gets put away for when you really need it.

Let me know which one you end up with, Like I said I don't have to cut out that often but if I get a hard one I would send it your way.

I had to edit this I found Fluid mask tutorial for hair and it can be done it just look like a little more work.
http://www.vertustech.com/fm3_tutor_hair.html

Post edited by: starimagephoto, at: 2008/06/07 09:52

Ok, $300 is starting to not look that bad. I did a quick web search for "best Chroma Key Software" Check out the price on this one from B and H ($1,349.95) This is for video but it looks like it works for stills as well. I'll take two.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/375746-REG/ Ultimatte__AdvantEdge_Chroma_Key_Software.html

Primatte does better with hair, see though areas like wedding veils etc, but needs to be on a green/blue screen or same color background etc. (I have a green screen, and I will tell you it is hard to get all the wrinkles out (were people are standing)) for full body shots

Good point, Stari. Their site recommends perfectly even lighting on the backdrop, but that's darned near impossible. I found that even their own samples (say, the redhead I posted) didn't meet that criterion and the results were completely usable. I did notice in Photoshop that the resulting mask showed imperfections in bluescreen lighting as a slight gradient that could potentially result in a flawed final product. I'm sure that wrinkles in the backdrop would be even more disruptive. But it's easy enough to edit the mask layer at that point. My big bugaboo is the hair; as long as the software handles fine hair as well as this example showed, I'm fine with having a few editable gaffes in the rest of the frame.

My horse-photographer sister found the software intriguing, but the thought of getting a greenscreen big enough to back a horse and rider -- and to illuminate it evenly enough for chromakey requirements -- was downright daunting.

She said, "Besides, it takes me only 25 to 45 minutes to cleanly cut a high-resolution horse for ad-work." When I asked her what she could do with that extra time if she could do the same task in 25 seconds, she got that "Hmmmmm!" look.

Post edited by: OrcaBob, at: 2008/06/08 01:39

Hey Bob,

thought of getting a greenscreen big enough to back a horse and rider

I got my Green screen off ebay. I am not sure how big it is but it is really big I only use about 1/4 of it when I use it. I bet it is at least 30 feet x 20 feet, that size should be ok for a horse and rider. It was a few years ago when I got it but I think it was between $50-$75. You may want to check them out.

I would say if you can use it a lot then it would pay for it self very quickly. You may need at least 4 to 5 lights to get it even. Make sure you use a back light it will help keep the Green screen light from bouncing back on the subject.

I bet it is at least 30 feet x 20 feet, that size should be ok for a horse and rider. It was a few years ago when I got it but I think it was between $50-$75. You may want to check them out.

Wow, that IS a good deal! I'll definitely check 'em out.

Make sure you use a back light it will help keep the Green screen light from bouncing back on the subject.

Yep, I'll do that. The Primatte software has a feature that does a pretty impressive job of cancelling that color-contamination, especially on the edges of the subject, but nothing beats getting it right in the camera in the first place.

tankiw